tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15768887.post6352906926905097991..comments2024-03-09T18:57:10.942+13:00Comments on Liberty Scott: So what's the transport funding about?Libertyscotthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12741049550997300680noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15768887.post-35409829889840353482009-09-01T09:01:13.063+12:002009-09-01T09:01:13.063+12:00People wouldn't use a public tranport option b...People wouldn't use a public tranport option because the government has subsidized roads.<br /><br />With a level playing field either could have won the battle.<br /><br />Go to the treasury website and it clearly says under transport vote that RUC pays only 70% of transport costs.<br /><br />It is not relevant how the tax was calculated. It didn't cover the cost of transport.<br /><br /Owen McCaffreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01588430362938687987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15768887.post-367345887181926642009-08-31T22:47:54.214+12:002009-08-31T22:47:54.214+12:00Owen: 70% of what? You'll find the NLTP is ful...Owen: 70% of what? You'll find the NLTP is fully funded from RUC, Fuel Excise Duty and Motor vehicle registration and licensing fees. Go to the NZTA website and download the NLTP you'll see a diagram that explain it. Road User Charges are a distance and weight based charge on all vehicles over 3.5 tonnes and all vehicles that do not use fuel taxed at source (except light electrics). Libertyscotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12741049550997300680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15768887.post-26130103509022350262009-08-31T16:42:48.143+12:002009-08-31T16:42:48.143+12:00Of course roads will be able to pay for themselves...Of course roads will be able to pay for themselves because demaind for them is almost completely inelastic. A tax can be imposed and people have no other transport option in many situations other than to not travel.<br /><br />If there were a viable public transport option, RUC would not be able to be as high as they are because people could easily vote with their feet and force taxes down againOwen McCaffreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01588430362938687987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15768887.post-90429150673098874912009-08-31T16:36:08.354+12:002009-08-31T16:36:08.354+12:00Treasury's website says that RUC only cover 70...Treasury's website says that RUC only cover 70% of transport spending. Therefore it has obviously been subsidized heavily over the last 100 years.Owen McCaffreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01588430362938687987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15768887.post-20263866770938478202009-08-31T01:47:35.594+12:002009-08-31T01:47:35.594+12:00Jarbury, I suggest you read this http://www.transp...Jarbury, I suggest you read this http://www.transport.govt.nz/ourwork/Land/Documents/SKM%20Engineering%20Advice.pdf and this try the NZIER and Infometrics reports here too http://www.transport.govt.nz/ourwork/Land/RoadUserChargesReview/<br /><br />It is more like 4000 times the damage as a 5 tonne truck, and yes the RUC does reflect this. Bear in mind that half of all road costs are fixed, and Libertyscotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12741049550997300680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15768887.post-56915759204885895552009-08-30T14:31:27.775+12:002009-08-30T14:31:27.775+12:00Liberty, apparently big 44 tonne trucks cause as m...Liberty, apparently big 44 tonne trucks cause as much road damage as 10,000 cars. Do they really pay 10,000 times more per kilometre than a car would?jarburyhttp://www.transportblog.co.nznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15768887.post-78212231837320876502009-08-30T10:48:13.868+12:002009-08-30T10:48:13.868+12:00Owen, obviously a person uses options that are ava...Owen, obviously a person uses options that are available. What's stopping you setting up alternatives since you clearly think people would use it? <br /><br />The car is always more flexible, it has no timetable and takes you door to door. You can only replicate that with a taxi. Why is a car using SH1 from Hamilton to Auckland subsidised? SH1 generates a substantial financial surplus. WhoLibertyscotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12741049550997300680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15768887.post-7559991516118405372009-08-29T22:37:37.231+12:002009-08-29T22:37:37.231+12:00So Just how would you go about having to go betwee...So Just how would you go about having to go between Hamilton and Auckland for business meetings? on the once-a-day train service? Wow that really competes with a car which is cheaper because of subsidies and more flexible because there is only one trip per day between the cities.<br /><br />No. There is no viable alternative to the road for almost all uses of the modern car (besides Owen McCaffreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01588430362938687987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15768887.post-2193306547796255362009-08-29T22:30:07.460+12:002009-08-29T22:30:07.460+12:00Owen: What nonsense. That's like saying people...Owen: What nonsense. That's like saying people use electricity or reticulated water because there is no viable alternative. People are intelligent enough to make choices based on the world around them, it might occur to you that alternatives are NOT viable. <br /><br />The railways in NZ have been subsidised endlessly since 1971 directly and long before that indirectly. Indeed they have Libertyscotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12741049550997300680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15768887.post-40045303519223741262009-08-29T20:38:22.831+12:002009-08-29T20:38:22.831+12:00I think in the future we're probably going to ...I think in the future we're probably going to shift away from petrol taxes and towards RUCs for everyone - so perhaps there will be the possibility of developing a smart-RUC system.<br /><br />In terms of petrol stations on the boundaries of a region, that's a pretty small issue really, and seemingly only applies to the BP at Bombay Hills if you're talking about Auckland. No need to jarburyhttp://www.transportblog.co.nznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15768887.post-50933343340649163032009-08-29T15:22:29.927+12:002009-08-29T15:22:29.927+12:00The argument that money for roads comes from road ...The argument that money for roads comes from road users so it should be spent on roads is not logical.<br /><br />Think about it for a second.<br /><br />They use the roads because there is no viable alternative. This is because any viable rail or public transport alternative has been subsidized out by 50 years of government investment in road infrastructure.<br /><br />Road user charges are Owen McCaffreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01588430362938687987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15768887.post-66639378923837925282009-08-28T20:29:53.224+12:002009-08-28T20:29:53.224+12:00Regional petrol tax is a bad idea - better to inve...Regional petrol tax is a bad idea - better to invest in a decent E-RUC system, then you could have a decent pricing system. Southland just discovered the perils of regional petrol taxes - it effectively got nicked to pay for North Island roads and passenger transport. Reading the regional NLTP reports you can conclude (from NZTA GDP and pop'n stats) that the least productive regions are beingWHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15768887.post-61267251143668726712009-08-28T18:52:49.741+12:002009-08-28T18:52:49.741+12:00Actually Southland pays for itself, just. No new ...Actually Southland pays for itself, just. No new construction, but a huge network with high fixed costs and little traffic generating petrol tax and RUC to pay for it.<br /><br />Jarbury, you have two huge problems with regional petrol tax. For starters around 40% of NLTF revenue comes from RUC - you can't regionalise RUC without a major technology upgrade, so in effect you can't Libertyscotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12741049550997300680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15768887.post-46181972780680491612009-08-28T14:20:29.527+12:002009-08-28T14:20:29.527+12:00That's why I am a fan of regional petrol taxes...That's why I am a fan of regional petrol taxes actually. <br /><br />Invercargill doesn't really need anymore roads, they just need to look after their current roads. So of course transport spending there is likely to be lower than elsewhere. However, I also think that their petrol taxes should be lower than elsewhere to make up for that.<br /><br />Compare that to Auckland, where we needjarburyhttp://www.transportblog.co.nznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15768887.post-35791551256019347932009-08-28T09:47:08.654+12:002009-08-28T09:47:08.654+12:00"Don't get excited if you're in Inver..."Don't get excited if you're in Invercargill though, move along, nothing to see here (quite right too)."<br /><br />They are bit grumpy about that down there - way too much cross subsidisation of inefficient North Island cities by productive Southern ones.WHnoreply@blogger.com